Episode 129- Wendy Ault- Connecting for Educational Development

A Maine native, Wendy Ault is a graduate of Bates College in Lewiston, Maine. She has worked as a reproductive health teacher and the Assistant Director of Admissions at Westbrook College (now the University of New England) in Portland, Maine.

Wendy Ault served as University of Maine at Farmington’s Associate Director of Admissions for seventeen years. For eight years of her time at UMF, she ran and was elected to the Maine House of Representatives representing part of Kennebec County from 1988 through 1996. She served all eight years as a member of the Joint Standing Committee on Education and Cultural Affairs, serving as its House Chair during her last term. In September 1999, Ms. Ault became President of the non-profit Maine Educational Loan Marketing Corporation. When MELMAC was sold to a for-profit corporation in January 2001, the proceeds from that sale created the MELMAC Education Foundation. Since 2001 Wendy has been the Executive Director of the MELMAC Education Foundation. She lives in Wayne, Maine with her husband.

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Transcript

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John Gardner: Good day,

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John Gardner: friends and colleagues, and welcome to another episode of office hours with John Gardner. This is John Gardner, and I'm really excited about. I think I guess it'd be true to say I'm excited about everybody I interview, but this person. She makes me feel so good, and I always

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John Gardner: learned from her, and I'm inspired by her, and it is a pleasure to introduce Wendy Alt. A. ULT. And I have only one thing in common with her, and that is well, maybe a couple more of those citizens in the United States, and

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John Gardner: we're both in the higher education realm. But we are both

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John Gardner: founders

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John Gardner: of organizations that work in the nonprofit world to support education. But that's where there's some differences, because, Wendy's work supports not only higher education, but lower education as well, and she is the founder

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John Gardner: of a foundation in the great small State of Maine. She is the personification of Maine.

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John Gardner: She reminds me in one respect. I have a daughter-in-law who was voted Misses South Carolina some years ago, and Wendy is Misses Miss Maine. I like that alliteration. She stands for me for the best of Maine, and you're going to hear about that in this conversation, and her foundation is making a big difference for the people of Maine, and to do this she has to practice innovation.

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John Gardner: and she is great at seeking out ideas from all kinds of people that complement her ideas that enable her to do things for Maine that were not being done before she founded this foundation, and I want her to talk to us about how she got into this work. She has a very interesting evolution story.

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John Gardner: We have a lot of places. This conversation will go. So, Wendy, I have let me just. I do want to say a couple of other things. She started as an admissions counselor for the University of Maine at Farmington, and somehow she got into Maine politics and got herself elected the Legislature, where she became a real force

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John Gardner: in the support from the Legislature for higher education in Maine, she became widely known in Maine. She's a graduate of a great Liberal Arts college in Maine.

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John Gardner: She and her family have just made such a difference for the State of Maine. So, Wendy, I want you to take it away now and introduce people. However, you would like to be introduced

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John Gardner: yourself.

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Wendy Ault: Certainly, John, I hope I live up to everything you just said, humbling to listen to you. Introduce me. I always I always joke. I wish my children were here so they could hear everything that you just said, but you're very kind and I don't deserve as much of the accolades.

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John Gardner: Near me, and you did.

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Wendy Ault: Yes.

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John Gardner: Invite me to come down and visit them, and.

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Wendy Ault: Okay, so you, okay, you're so funny.

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Wendy Ault: Anyway, you did leave out the 1st job I had after I graduated from that very competitive Liberal Arts College in Maine, and that was, I was a teacher for 4 years, and I was. I was a reproductive health teacher. In in. But it was really a sex education teacher, but you know.

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Wendy Ault: to properly describe it. It was a reproductive health education teacher, but

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John Gardner: Before, okay.

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Wendy Ault: Okay, so and so that that's the only thing you left out about my

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Wendy Ault: resume, I think. But.

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John Gardner: Well, when you were doing that I was in South Carolina, and by law we didn't have reproductive health. Educators, teachers were not allowed to talk to students about this.

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Wendy Ault: Really oh, my word!

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John Gardner: Was different. Yes.

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Wendy Ault: Well. Maine is progressive.

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Wendy Ault: He's.

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John Gardner: And you can penalize that.

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John Gardner: So 1st job and then your second job was working for the university of Mandate Pharma.

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Wendy Ault: No. I went to a small college in Portland that was Westbrook College at the time, but the University of New England.

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Wendy Ault: And Westbrook merged or

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Wendy Ault: UN became took over Westburg College. So yeah.

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Wendy Ault: so that was my 1st admissions job. I did that for 2 years, and then I went to the University of Maine at Farmington.

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John Gardner: Okay.

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John Gardner: all right.

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John Gardner: And

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John Gardner: what were the what was the impact of your admissions? Work on.

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Wendy Ault: Oh!

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John Gardner: That you are.

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Wendy Ault: Oh, well, I first.st

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Wendy Ault: I'd like to say that I've never had a job that I didn't love, and that I was able to really weave my personality into each one of the jobs that I have had. Being a teacher was I was young, and I wasn't that much older than the students I had in class, and it was really a lot of fun.

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Wendy Ault: But I was very. It was a serious topic, and it was not without controversy. So I I was very professional

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Wendy Ault: about it. But you might remember that my uncle was Dean of Admissions at Bates College for 30 plus years. And I always.

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Wendy Ault: I was curious about his job. It seemed like that, too, would be a lot of fun. Very. People focused and helping young people make really positive decisions about education being included in their plans. And so after 4 years I got the itch, and I thought, well, Uncle Milt had a really interesting job. So I applied for admissions jobs. And that's how that

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Wendy Ault: came about.

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John Gardner: And heard my uncle Milled, and you was the 1st job after that. Was that was that the one at Westbrook? Or was that.

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Wendy Ault: Yes, that was at Westbrook. Yeah. And then my husband, my future husband. We weren't married at the time, but we decided we wanted to get married, and so I was living in Portland, and the job at the University Main at Farmington

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Wendy Ault: opened up, and it was held by an a dear friend of mine at the time, and she was going off to grad school, so she encouraged me to apply for it, and George and I were. We're planning to get married. So Farmington's about a half hour from Wayne, which is where we were going to locate. So

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Wendy Ault: it made sense to apply for that job, and I was very fortunate to

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Wendy Ault: get it. Get the job.

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John Gardner: Yeah.

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Wendy Ault: Now I think.

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Wendy Ault: Pardon. How long was I? There.

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John Gardner: Wilmington.

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Wendy Ault: 17 years.

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John Gardner: Wow! I didn't realize who sounds. My wife and I both have been to Farmington, and

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Wendy Ault: Yes, you have.

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John Gardner: Yeah.

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Wendy Ault: Yes.

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John Gardner: They survived today.

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Wendy Ault: You did great. You did great work at Farmington

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Wendy Ault: with a grant from the Malmac education, foundation, they Engaged you.

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Wendy Ault: yes, well.

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John Gardner: You had an intervening intervening stop, though, between

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John Gardner: creating the Melac Foundation and being at Farmington, and tell us about that.

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Wendy Ault: Well,

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Wendy Ault: in in

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Wendy Ault: in my world. I never thought I would have a job for more than 4 years. I I'm

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Wendy Ault: anyway. So while I was at Farmington I obviously I was married and I had one child, but I started to get the itch again, and but I loved my job, and I liked the security of living in Wayne and having

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Wendy Ault: close extended family around me. And so my Uncle David had been in the State Legislature and the State Senate when I was a middle school and high school student, and so that always

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Wendy Ault: piqued my interest. And so a seat came available where the Sitting House member was retiring, and so

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Wendy Ault: I was approached, and very interested in being a member of the

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Wendy Ault: Maine Legislature, and so

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Wendy Ault: I

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Wendy Ault: ran for the Legislature.

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John Gardner: Yes.

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Wendy Ault: While I was while I was still at Farmington, I was able to have a leave of absence during the session, because Maine has a part time, legislature, so.

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John Gardner: And you did that. What for you? You have term limits in May.

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Wendy Ault: 2. We're trying.

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John Gardner: Unlimited out after what it.

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Wendy Ault: Yes, 8 years. Very good. I I like, and I probably have said this to you. I was termed out, not turned out.

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Wendy Ault: If you will.

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John Gardner: You have never put it that way.

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John Gardner: Because if they didn't have that you would have been turned in. I think.

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Wendy Ault: I was probably.

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John Gardner: So what did you have to do with higher education when you were in the legislature?

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Wendy Ault: Well, I was so fortunate. To be appointed to the Education Committee from in my 1st term and I served on 2 committees for 2 terms, aging retirement veterans and the Education Committee, and then for the final 2 years I was only on the Education Committee and became the chair in the last in my last term.

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Wendy Ault: The coaching with this sent.

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John Gardner: What was your primary duty as chair? I think I know, but I would want our listeners to know.

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Wendy Ault: My primary duties was to manage hearings and manage the legislation that came out of the Education Committee on the floor of the house

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Wendy Ault: so.

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Wendy Ault: and you know, Advocate Lobby. Other legislators.

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John Gardner: And what did you see at that time were the greatest needs for Maine's higher education systems.

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Wendy Ault: Well, well, I was there, I would say the highlights included passing learning results, legislation, so that it was well established. What students were expected to.

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Wendy Ault: learn and have as an outcome for their K through 12 experience. We also created a magnet school up in limestone, which is very focused on math and science. I'd say those probably are are the 2 highlights. But there were many other initiatives. The home schoolers had a very strong lobby. And so there was a lot of legislation about

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Wendy Ault: homeschooling.

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Wendy Ault: And

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Wendy Ault: one thing we we did was pass legislation to allow students who are being homeschooled to weave in and out of public schools, to take

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Wendy Ault: enriching courses and also participate in extracurricular activities. Prior to that, they they could not do that.

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Wendy Ault: Those were 3 of the

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Wendy Ault: highlights, probably.

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Wendy Ault: and then there were many. I I would have to say that you always hear about the contentious bills that are so divided. But those were the vast minority of bills. Most of the bills that came out of the Education Committee were unanimous. Committee reports.

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John Gardner: Was that consensus is.

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John Gardner: I'm going to guess that it's something to do with the way you facilitated

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John Gardner: the the process is that the case. Where did you do things to minimize conflict.

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Wendy Ault: Well,

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Wendy Ault: I would say that I I most

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Wendy Ault: likely did to minimize conflict, but you know sometimes conflict is healthy and you know I always say your friend on one issue is your enemy on another one, so you know you can't burn bridges, and you know that

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Wendy Ault: I I had tremendous respect for some of my peers on the Education Committee, because they would.

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Wendy Ault: You know, we would just agree to disagree sometimes and say, look, we're never gonna come to an agreement on this. Let's just

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Wendy Ault: have a divided report. But

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Wendy Ault: so I I mean.

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Wendy Ault: I would say.

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Wendy Ault: the goal was not to have

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Wendy Ault: conflict. But you're bound to have conflict. You have

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Wendy Ault: people on all sides of every issue.

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Wendy Ault: and not always partisan. You know just

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Wendy Ault: core beliefs that people have that

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Wendy Ault: you know you have. You need to be respectful and

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Wendy Ault: manage that in some way.

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John Gardner: If you were back in Legislature now in Maine, and you were chairing that committee again.

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John Gardner: would you find the culture the same

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John Gardner: that enables you.

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Wendy Ault: I've heard it's not the same. I have heard that.

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Wendy Ault: and

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Wendy Ault: I've heard people who know me well, and because of term limits I do have former peers who have come back because you can come back.

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Wendy Ault: and you know they know me. And they say, Oh, Wendy, you wouldn't. You wouldn't have a lot of fun. You wouldn't have near as much fun as you

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Wendy Ault: did back and back in the day.

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Wendy Ault: so I mean I'm sure that if I don't see myself running again, but I'm sure I would make the best of it if I were to be.

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Wendy Ault: It liked it again. But.

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John Gardner: Are you? If.

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Wendy Ault: Many.

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John Gardner: You they that's interested. They describe you as they were aware that you were having fun.

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John Gardner: Yes, and would you? Would you agree with that?

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Wendy Ault: Oh, I think, John, I would have to say that in the spirit of I've never had a job that I felt that I couldn't weave my personality into. I try and incorporate fun into into my life, and I mean, I always, when I was in admissions I always told young people

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Wendy Ault: find something that really prompts you to get out of bed in the morning, and that you love

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Wendy Ault: because you're gonna have to work for 40 years, and so you might as well do something you love and can have fun doing.

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Wendy Ault: I mean, there's certainly times when it's

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Wendy Ault: not fun, but it's important to

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Wendy Ault: smile and

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Wendy Ault: have fun.

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John Gardner: Yes.

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John Gardner: our listeners. I'm sorry they can't see. One thing I'm seeing as we're talking here. Wendy Old has behind her on her office wall

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John Gardner: a technicolor map

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John Gardner: in which

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John Gardner: the different regions of Maine have various colors, and they are colored

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John Gardner: in a way that shows the influence of her work on the entire State of Maine, and that's telling me you've had fun all over the State of Maine.

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Wendy Ault: Hmm, yeah.

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John Gardner: I'd like just to hear. What? What is it that you're doing, Wendy, and how you founded something in which you had? What is that.

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Wendy Ault: I I certainly didn't do it by myself. I have an amazing board, and you know many of them. I like to describe them as worka bees as opposed to Queen bees, because they just have all of them jumped in with both feet and you know I I learned so much from them, and their perspective on education is really interesting. And they all have a different take so the board has

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Wendy Ault: been wholesale, involved in the creation of this foundation and the initiatives that we fund over the years. So it's very much a working group.

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Wendy Ault: I would. I would say, what do we do?

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Wendy Ault: we undertook we were. We are a conversion foundation like Lumina Nellie May. You've heard of.

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John Gardner: Yeah, some.

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Wendy Ault: These foundations.

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John Gardner: Know what a conversion fact doesn't religious conversion.

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Wendy Ault: Right. No, it's it.

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Wendy Ault: We were once a student loan, nonprofit organization, and the Federal Government had a piece of legislation that allowed

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Wendy Ault: student loan entity like ours to convert to a private stand alone. Foundation and there were requirements about that. And so in a very simple way. We converted, and one of our 1st undertakings was to

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Wendy Ault: take to look at the State and see what was being done with regard to education, and where the gaps were so that we could try and address them. The board wanted to have statewide impact, and they knew that

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Wendy Ault: that they wanted to focus on

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Wendy Ault: education in some meaningful way. And so, as a result of that 1st strategic

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Wendy Ault: planning effort.

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Wendy Ault: we identified.

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Wendy Ault: got it.

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Wendy Ault: connect aspirations to a plan grant, which was focused on K. Well, mostly 9 through 12 at that time, and supporting early success in college, which was

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Wendy Ault: pretty self-explanatory.

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Wendy Ault: focused on colleges, and we also had us a very modest adult education grant to work with adult Ed programs.

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John Gardner: I see

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John Gardner: what year was the foundation founded.

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Wendy Ault: 2,000 2,000.

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John Gardner: 2,000. Yeah.

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Wendy Ault: January one.

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Wendy Ault: 2,000.

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John Gardner: 24th year.

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Wendy Ault: Yes. Can you believe that.

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John Gardner: Gardner Institute was founded a year before that in 1990.

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Wendy Ault: Okay. Oh.

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Wendy Ault: as well.

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John Gardner: Room, door.

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Wendy Ault: You know. One thing I I would like I I like to fill in a little gap. But My

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Wendy Ault: work being the

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Wendy Ault: reproductive health

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Wendy Ault: teacher. We went into about 30 to 35 schools. We had a

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Wendy Ault: a packaged program, if you will, and so we would travel in 2 county area, I would say, but it encompassed about 30, 35 schools. And so that gave me a sense of Maine. And I have to say, you know, I'm a native. I was born and raised here, and as a result of that

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Wendy Ault: that job I travel to places in Maine that I

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Wendy Ault: admit now that I had never been, which was

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Wendy Ault: a great experience, and I remember my the Dean of admission at Westbrook College. I remember her

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Wendy Ault: saying in my interview that how attractive that was to her that I had built a deep relationship with 30 to 35 different schools, and how valuable that would be to Westbrook to have me have relationships with those school counselors.

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Wendy Ault: So, and it definitely served me well when I was running for the legislature, because a lot of the students I taught in this greater Augusta area, and you know many of the students were in my district.

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Wendy Ault: older or obviously able to vote, but

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Wendy Ault: so that that was a great.

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John Gardner: Now, 24 years later. How many schools would you say you have

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John Gardner: established relationships with.

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Wendy Ault: Okay it?

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Wendy Ault: I'd

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Wendy Ault: I should have prepared for that, John. I would say, we have made grants to

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Wendy Ault: probably 80. I would guess 80

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Wendy Ault: schools

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Wendy Ault: in Maine

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Wendy Ault: for

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Wendy Ault: for

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Wendy Ault: the aspiration raising.

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Wendy Ault: And then we've expanded to include the career and technical

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Wendy Ault: centers. So I would say, it's 80 88, maybe.

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John Gardner: Right.

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Wendy Ault: And it was very important to the board, as you saw from the map. When we started, you know

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Wendy Ault: not every school was interested in partnering with us and receiving a grant

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Wendy Ault: but over the course of the 3 cohorts that you can see on the map the board was very intentional about make reach out to schools in counties where we don't have a presence

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Wendy Ault: and you know, they made it very clear that they wanted to

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Wendy Ault: do everything

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Wendy Ault: that we could to have a statewide impact. And we have achieved that.

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Wendy Ault: We have grants from Fort Kent to Kittery and from

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Wendy Ault: Bethel to Eastport. So

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Wendy Ault: we we definitely have statewide impact.

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John Gardner: Some of our

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John Gardner: listeners may not know the geography of Maine as you just described it, but I will tell you, folks. Fort Kent is the northernmost place in the United States, and it's about it's almost 200 miles from well, the nearest major airport in Bangor

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John Gardner: and

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John Gardner: I think probably many Americans don't realize how isolated

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John Gardner: I know that you have a you're really passionate about the needs of rural and adult students in Maine who.

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John Gardner: many of whom who started college, but who never finished post.

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Wendy Ault: So you just.

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John Gardner: I'd like you to talk a little bit about that, because

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John Gardner: America has obviously become increasingly urban. But that's not what we see in Maine.

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Wendy Ault: Main had at the time we did our 1st strategy development. Main had significant

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Wendy Ault: population, 1st generation, low income students in rural areas. I mean, we obviously have some urban areas you you have witnessed. Portland is probably the largest

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Wendy Ault: but

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Wendy Ault: yes.

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Wendy Ault: and

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Wendy Ault: so.

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Wendy Ault: But most of Maine is rural.

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Wendy Ault: Sorry about that interruption. And so.

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Wendy Ault: you know, when you think about equity and education, there is not equity in in Maine.

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Wendy Ault: you know. Some people say it depends what your Zip code is with regard to the quality

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Wendy Ault: of the education that you're receiving.

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Wendy Ault: so

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Wendy Ault: the the foundation go ahead.

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John Gardner: Just said quote, there's no equity in Maine.

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Wendy Ault: There's not equity with regard to education, opportunity in Maine. It it matters where you live there, and no surprise to you. But some of the urban areas

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Wendy Ault: that they, their schools, are high achieving. They offer

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Wendy Ault: many more opportunities with regard to ap classes or you know even some of the

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Wendy Ault: some some

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Wendy Ault: some schools in Maine don't even

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Wendy Ault: aren't able to even offer more than one foreign language, and some schools in May. Now

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Wendy Ault: they have agreements with other districts to offer some classes. They can't offer them, because they don't have a teacher in that in their school system. So you know, that's something that we grapple with.

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Wendy Ault: On the State Board of Education. I I serve on the State Board, but we really grapple with trying to ensure that all students have

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Wendy Ault: at basic learning results

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Wendy Ault: foundation of

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Wendy Ault: courses and curriculum.

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Wendy Ault: But we're not. We're not there yet.

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John Gardner: So what are the areas that you are especially interested in investing in right now cross

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John Gardner: all these different grades?

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John Gardner: What are the common numbers.

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Wendy Ault: Well, of note is, and you'll remember some of the modest grants that we've start. We started out with in our early cohorts, where we would give a high school a grant, and we realized early that it should be 4 years, so that it touched 9 through 12. Originally it was focused on 11 and 12th grade. But

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Wendy Ault: that's too late to be

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Wendy Ault: helping students with their aspirations and awareness of what is available. So the board has created a grant that we call aspire grants. And so we, in addition to the modest grants that we are awarding to career and technical centers and high schools and middle schools. We also have a Pre. K through 12

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Wendy Ault: grant, where we partner with jobs for Maine's graduates, which is a another nonprofit. They are the Rso. And the foundation dedicates a million dollars over 5 years so that a community can create

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Wendy Ault: college and career access program that fits the community in which

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Wendy Ault: the grant is being given.

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Wendy Ault: So we have 3 of those communities now.

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John Gardner: Oh.

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John Gardner: my sense of working with people in Maine who who know you

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John Gardner: would tell me, or have told me, that the success of your foundation. The success of these investments

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John Gardner: are inextricable. From how people see you

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John Gardner: and they some would describe you as the whirling Dervish of Maine.

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John Gardner: We? We never. She's going to show up, but she's going to show up, and she's going to make a difference when she gets there.

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John Gardner: There is a domain that they haven't formally chartered themselves as such, but I call them the fow's the the friends of Wendy's. So you know, I find this with a number of innovators. They have a kind of secret formula.

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John Gardner: something unique about them, the way they go about practicing innovation. And I I'd like you to come and just set your check. Your modesty at the door here, and.

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Wendy Ault: Hmm.

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John Gardner: Alice, how do you go about practicing this? These unique ways? You go about doing your work.

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John Gardner: You've told us about wanting to have fun.

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John Gardner: but it's not just about having fun. You you are very good at that.

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John Gardner: and you you share that with others. But what else.

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Wendy Ault: Well, I would say.

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Wendy Ault: Maine is one big, small town, and it's so easy to

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Wendy Ault: become involved in Maine.

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Wendy Ault: It.

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Wendy Ault: And so

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Wendy Ault: yeah, I've no surprise. I love people. I find people of all stripes, all persuasions interesting. Everyone has a story, so to speak, and I've come to

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Wendy Ault: really believe that.

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Wendy Ault: it in in my really simple explanation is, it's really all about relationships and forging relationships and having credibility and trust and

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Wendy Ault: early on, I learned that there's nothing worse than going into

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Wendy Ault: a community and

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Wendy Ault: peering to be there to save them from themselves. It's really important

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Wendy Ault: that you you get buy in. And so something that the foundation has done, which I, in retrospect, I think, is brilliant, is whenever we're about to make a grant, we always invite the constituency that will benefit from the grant in for

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Wendy Ault: for advisory committee meetings, and they weigh in on every aspect of the grant how the duration, the amount of money, the best practices that should be included, and they recognize that the Board always has veto power. But you you instantly get buy-in by approaching communities like that.

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Wendy Ault: because you're you're not there telling them how to do something. And that's what I love about this aspire. Grant is

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Wendy Ault: you know we have an Rso. Jmg. And to their credit they they.

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John Gardner: There's an Rso.

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Wendy Ault: It's a resource support organization.

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Wendy Ault: So we're we fund the grant and we're funding Jmg, to provide the staffing and the scaffolding to to move the Grant

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Wendy Ault: goals forward

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Wendy Ault: so.

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Wendy Ault: but to their credit they involve us.

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Wendy Ault: And so where they call us thought leaders. And we're we're very involved in the grant, in addition to funding it.

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John Gardner: So you're saying the foundation serves in the role of a thought leader. Is that correct?

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Wendy Ault: In in the aspire, Grant. For sure. I guess I could say that we're a thought leader in all aspects, you know, because we're very

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Wendy Ault: we I I don't micromanage the grants. We have coaches that work with each of the Grants. But

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Wendy Ault: you know, grantees reach out to us and ask for help problem solving. Our coaches are boots on the ground, and they provide that sort of

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Wendy Ault: assistance as well.

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John Gardner: You. You said something that you used language that I'm sure everybody would understand on some level.

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John Gardner: but I found it very striking. When I asked you to describe

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John Gardner: your

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John Gardner: well, your your strategy, the unique ways you went about doing your work with respect to innovation, you said. And I quote, it's really all about relationships.

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Wendy Ault: Hmm.

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John Gardner: Having credibility

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John Gardner: and having trust.

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John Gardner: Now, we all understand, I mean, we relationships, credibility, trust.

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John Gardner: If some of the, particularly aspiring innovators who listen to this podcast series. If, if they were to look at themselves

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John Gardner: and hold those 3 legs of the stool there, relationships trust credibility.

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John Gardner: When do you? How do you go about doing that?

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Wendy Ault: Well, I

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Wendy Ault: I think the 1st and foremost. We we don't have all the answers, and you know we're we're a funder. But there are challenges that all schools are experiencing. And so, you know, in isolation to create a grant

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Wendy Ault: might not be the best way to approach a grant. And so i i i believe that our credibility and the trust that we build comes from asking

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Wendy Ault: people to

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Wendy Ault: engage in how we're going to make the grant.

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Wendy Ault: You. It's I witnessed. You get buy in. It's like.

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Wendy Ault: and

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Wendy Ault: it's it's a really positive, it's very positive, because

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Wendy Ault: again, the board always has veto power. But the Board very much appreciates hearing from people who are doing the work. What needs to be done.

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Wendy Ault: We can't! We can't be all things to all people. I I don't.

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John Gardner: As you say, here's

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John Gardner: your board has access to the people you're serving. Is that right?

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Wendy Ault: Yes, Yup.

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Wendy Ault: so, and sometimes board members will come to those advisory committee meetings. Some sometimes board members will read a grant application or you. You might remember that we host Quarterly Peer learning sessions, so that all of the attendance is obligatory. If you have a grant, you have to come to these peer learning sessions. And we bring people in who have expertise in

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Wendy Ault: areas that grantees want to learn more about.

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Wendy Ault: mostly regarding

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Wendy Ault: college and career access. But people like you, John, make recommendations to us about

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Wendy Ault: people who are really

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Wendy Ault: good in their particular areas. And, as you know, we have

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Wendy Ault: provided peer learning sessions for colleges as well as high schools, and we're not afraid to bring people in from other States

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Wendy Ault: to to profile. What could possibly be replicated in main as a best practice. But it's people like you who give us these fabulous ideas and introduce us to

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Wendy Ault: other excellent

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Wendy Ault: thought leaders. And

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Wendy Ault: so it, you know, in the spirit of it's all about relationships.

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Wendy Ault: My relationship with you is really important, especially as we make grants to colleges

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Wendy Ault: because you have a wide net

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Wendy Ault: that I don't have.

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John Gardner: Warren

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John Gardner: folks. I want to tell you all a story about the kind of net she has. One time a foolish, well-educated person from the south of the United States was going to come to the Maine and winter.

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John Gardner: and you know they it's cold. You have snow, and winter goes on a long time, and by the time it already has warmed up in the South it hasn't warmed up in Maine yet. So this well-intentioned guy from the South was headed for Maine in the winter in March, and he realized, after he was underway on his trip, that he didn't have a winter coat.

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John Gardner: so he thought, where can I get a winter coat? And I don't even want to get off a plane without a winter coat. And so he reached out to Wendy, Ault, and lo and behold! When you arrive in one of the smallest airports in the United States in Preschool, Maine, which has only 3 flights in a day from Boston. Get off the plane, and there's a winter coat waiting for you

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John Gardner: that when he had arranged for me, and because she knew I was headed even further north to a place called Fort Kent.

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John Gardner: So, Wendy, you, you have a way of reaching out anywhere in the State that you need to to go and to be, and to make

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John Gardner: your presence felt and.

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Wendy Ault: Well, John, what I love about that story is because I you've never said it to me. But I know you subscribe to. It's all about relationships, because

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Wendy Ault: I don't believe you've come to Maine ever without telling me that you were coming, and I so appreciate that. And as I recall, I was going to pick you up at the Prescott airport and drive you to Fort Kent, and then spend the day with you while you were working with Fort Kent with a Milmac grant

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Wendy Ault: and

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Wendy Ault: and I mean that even carries further. I remember a time you were speaking in Vermont.

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Wendy Ault: and you called me and said.

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Wendy Ault: Wendy, I'm coming to Vermont. Is this a conference that you might be interested in? And so I went to the conference and

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Wendy Ault: so.

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John Gardner: Yeah, that that was a meeting in which your State was involved. Folks, you may not know this, but the transfer issue at American higher education. I know you know about that. But the oldest, the longest serving professional organization in the country deserve transfer students is the New England Association for transfer students, and it is now 52, 53 years old. All 6 New England States are members, and once in a while they of course, they meet in Maine, but they're meeting in Vermont this year.

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John Gardner: you know they're they're well, they'll be back to Maine, or they do go back to Maine. But so you you crossed the border, and you brought some of some of the main into Vermont, and that that was a good thing.

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John Gardner: so it is all about relationships, no question. And when you, when you look at where you've you've been doing this now for 24 years.

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John Gardner: is, are there some things that you haven't done yet that you want to try to do through the Melac Foundation.

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Wendy Ault: Well, hi! The way I would answer that by would be by saying.

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Wendy Ault: Yes, I there's a lot to be done, and, as I have said often. Malnut can't be all things to all people, and so, you know.

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Wendy Ault: some frustration for me is that we don't always do a good job connecting the dots so that you know we could have a comprehensive

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Wendy Ault: approach!

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Wendy Ault: We. We're better than we were 24 years ago about talking with one another and trying to ensure that we're working together in a more cooperative, collaborative way. But, I I

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Wendy Ault: we're right now in the midst of trying to determine

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Wendy Ault: what is the next grant going to look like? So this is a good question for you to ask me. I don't know, but I do know that we are going to be doing something

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Wendy Ault: further with grants. We're going to continue the aspire Grant, because it's really caught on with school superintendents and communities. But we're also working in a modest way with career and technical centers and high schools. And so

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Wendy Ault: stay tuned. I'll I'll know better. But I'm we're totally open to

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Wendy Ault: learning from the people who are

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Wendy Ault: boots on the ground, so to speak, to determine what should be in that grant.

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John Gardner: If you reach outside, you do look outside main. As a matter I don't.

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John Gardner: Many people may not know that you you folks in Maine. You have a phrase that describes people who don't live

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John Gardner: and tell us what that phrase is. It's too early.

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Wendy Ault: That you're from away. You mean that.

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Wendy Ault: okay?

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Wendy Ault: Or you're a Flatlander. You're a Flatlander. You're from a way, yeah.

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John Gardner: I know that my identity when I go to Maine is I am from away.

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Wendy Ault: Oh, no, John, you I

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Wendy Ault: no, you're a legend. You're

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Wendy Ault: no, I've I've the best example is when I when you I was running late, which I often do as you alluded to earlier, I will show up

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Wendy Ault: but when I called Bill Egler and said, John Gardner is about to get off a plane at the Prescott airport. He had a meeting. He had a meeting of Deans, and he said, I will cancel my meeting and go meet that plane.

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Wendy Ault: So.

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John Gardner: He did, and I still have the main. The code he gave me that's branded with

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John Gardner: Northern Maine community.

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Wendy Ault: Yeah, yeah.

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Wendy Ault: So so you're no slouch. John, you're no, slouch.

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John Gardner: When you do allow yourself to go where those people from away are and

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John Gardner: American higher education brought.

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John Gardner: you want to scold us for anything. Are they.

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Wendy Ault: Well, I you know

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Wendy Ault: probably I. And this is this is a quick response, but it it really it's probably deeper than quick. But I loved Arnie Duncan.

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Wendy Ault: I thought he was a fabulous. I don't know how you felt about him, but Arnie Duncan engaged foundations like Melac in in a national conversation. He had quarterly meetings with us, and you know I could get on a phone call with Arnie Duncan Quarterly, and I so

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Wendy Ault: pardon.

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John Gardner: You're referring to the you're referring to the former Cabinet officer Secretary of Education.

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Wendy Ault: Yes.

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Wendy Ault: yes, right? Yeah. He's from Chicago. And he he seemed to me to really believe in

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Wendy Ault: trying to understand what was going on in the different States, and you know, he he really did a great job of in engaging foundations like Melac on on regular conversations, but I so appreciated when he had a press conference, and he was talking about the sweet 16 Ncaa tournament, and he talked about those basketball players that were

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Wendy Ault: on. Those teams

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Wendy Ault: were

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Wendy Ault: amazing basketball players.

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Wendy Ault: but they were not

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Wendy Ault: most likely going to graduate from college. They were there for a short time, and so he really was

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Wendy Ault: he? He did. He

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Wendy Ault: he broadened the conversation about. It's not only about recruitment, it's about student success, and that, you know, we needed to be aware that just.

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Wendy Ault: You have a large freshman class 1st year class, but we needed to focus on

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Wendy Ault: retaining them so that they actually persisted and experienced success and attained a credential at the end of

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Wendy Ault: their experience. I so appreciated that.

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Wendy Ault: And I haven't seen. I I know you're focusing on it. And I appreciate that.

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Wendy Ault: because especially now with

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Wendy Ault: the student debt. And

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Wendy Ault: yeah, I I just.

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Wendy Ault: It's it bothers me that we recruit students to go to college, and we don't put as much emphasis on helping them to finish.

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John Gardner: You know, one of the

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John Gardner: about working in the nonprofit higher education world is that it is a form of public charity. You're serving the public good. And you can basically do anything you want to do that your board will allow you to do as long as legal and ethical.

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John Gardner: and you are clearly doing that in main, and you've identified Wendy a gap

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John Gardner: a need in American higher education that there there hasn't been an Arnie Duncan that is meeting the need you describe? And you know I've just had this. You know notion here, listening to you that maybe

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John Gardner: you could.

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John Gardner: You and your your foundation. You could call for something like this, and you could host something. I mean. You have an airport, Portland. You have another one in bank.

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John Gardner: Maybe you could try to host it. Maybe it already ducked into back.

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Wendy Ault: I know. Yeah.

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John Gardner: Something like you saw him do before.

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John Gardner: We do need this.

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John Gardner: We?

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John Gardner: We have lots of people. I assume, that would

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John Gardner: want to join the team.

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Wendy Ault: I think it's a really hard time to be in higher education right now, too, because I I don't know if it's Covid impacted. But you know, I'm observing that

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Wendy Ault: families, students don't necessarily see the value of going to college. We have so many employment opportunities in Maine that don't require a college degree, they might require a credential or some training. And so I'm hearing from some of our grantees many of our grantees that students are electing employment opportunities as opposed to

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Wendy Ault: pursuing education.

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Wendy Ault: It's hard. I just the other day another college in in Massachusetts closed Eastern Nazarene College. I think it's really it's it's and the the announcement in the last few months that the some of the prestigious private colleges will. The call cost will be $90,000 a year.

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Wendy Ault: you know, that's that's daunting for main families, because

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Wendy Ault: that's not the median income. And so.

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Wendy Ault: you know, they automatically turn

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Wendy Ault: a blind eye, you know, like we can't.

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John Gardner: Thank you. So just just it's something that somehow you could incorporate into the theme for your next round of Grant making.

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John Gardner: What could college and universities in Maine do to help their constituencies. Maine citizens think about the the.

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Wendy Ault: Can I just.

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John Gardner: Choices that high schools about what you describe as education as opposed to employment.

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Wendy Ault: They don't have to.

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John Gardner: Be mutually distinct.

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Wendy Ault: Right, right.

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John Gardner: How could they be more integrated and how do you, in effect, make more of your citizens aware of the the value of higher education.

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Wendy Ault: Hmm.

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John Gardner: You could you could.

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Wendy Ault: They're struggling with that individually, I know, from talking to them.

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John Gardner: Wendy. We

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John Gardner: The one of the great limitations of the podcast. Format is that I'm supposed to be more conscious of time than I often am.

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John Gardner: Talk to you a lot longer. But I want to, you know, say in conclusion here that I know that there's some people may want to talk to this whirling dervish from Maine, and she again. And how do I reach out to her? So would you? And I mean that with the greatest of respect. Would you please give people whatever you'd be willing for them to have for contact information for you.

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Wendy Ault: Sure. We we are the Melac Education Foundation. I can be reached at info at Melac all caps. MELM. A. C foundation.org.

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Wendy Ault: And our phone number is (207) 622-3066.

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John Gardner: Repeat that when you.

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Wendy Ault: Because I coughed.

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Wendy Ault: Sorry.

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John Gardner: Off. But I just wanna make sure they got it.

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Wendy Ault: The phone number

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Wendy Ault: 2, 0 2, 0 7, 6, 2, 2, 3, 0 6, 6.

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John Gardner: Give them the email again, too. Info at Melbourne.

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Wendy Ault: Info at Melmack foundation.org.

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John Gardner: Foundation.

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John Gardner: So, and you are located in the Augusta Maine region.

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Wendy Ault: Correct August to me.

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John Gardner: You're not Charlotte and Rock Hill, South Carolina, so you would do occasionally. Get south, as I know, and, as I said earlier, Wendy's children live about 2 and a half hours from where I am in western North Carolina.

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John Gardner: Well, Wendy, thank you very much. I really appreciate.

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Wendy Ault: Thank you.

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Wendy Ault: As you know, I'm the president of your Fan club. I think you're amazing.

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John Gardner: Oh!

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Wendy Ault: Thank you. And I'm humbled that you would want me to be the

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Wendy Ault: focus on one of your podcasts.

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John Gardner: We've given people some themes here to distill what has made you an extraordinarily impactful educational leader in this data. Vain

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John Gardner: who is still at it. Great, thank you. Again, Wendy.

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Wendy Ault: Thank you, John. Enjoy the day.